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05 Jul, 2007

Anime Expo 2007: Anime in America

Posted by: Rachel In: Anime Expo

Anime Expo held a panel this year to discuss “Anime in America“. Some of the big names in US anime distribution were present to weigh in on the topic:

  • GDH International
  • Right Stuf International
  • Bang Zoom! Entertainment
  • Bandai Visual
  • ADV Films
  • FUNimation
  • Geneon.
  • Gary Steinman, Editor in Chief for Newtype USA moderated the panel.

    The panel started with the keynote speech by Keizo Tsuchiya, who highlighted how much Japanese culture has had an impact on the entertainment industry. Mr.Tsuchiya (no relation to Ana) works for JETRO (Japanese External Trade Organization), a government agency whose prime goal is to expand the mutual trade between Japan and the world. He works in the EPJ (Entertainment Promotion of Japan) division. According to Keizo Tsuchiya, Japanese culture is now rapidly entering US markets, and that includes the influx of more anime. Co-Productions, such as Afro Samurai, are the next generation of anime. These mutual efforts by both the US and Japan will further the anime industry.

    changes and developments in the industry

    One of the focal points for the discussion were the changes and developments in the industry this past year. Almost all the panelists agreed that the internet is the most significant change for the industry. Matt Greenfield of ADV Films stated that downloading anime is a big force in the industry. Lance Heiskell of FUNimation said that people are trying anime online before they buy it. However, downloading, as a business, is a huge step mentally for licensees and consumers alike to make.

    Fansubs

    Anime in AmericaAnime continues to grow in popularity, in fact, it beat out sex as a search topic on the internet. However, DVD sales are actually way down. Fansubs are mainly to blame for the current slump in DVD sales. Lance Heiskell feels that if fansubs are ignored, they will literally kill the industry. Fans downloading anime are hurting DVD sales and some panelists feel that this will eventually lead to the end of the industry in America.

    Fans will pay money for bandwidth to watch their fave anime online, but they won’t pay for a DVD. Why? Matt Greenfield feels that education on the effect of fansubbing on anime won’t do the trick. He thinks it’s just human nature to want something for free. Most fans, he says, who watch anime will never buy it. They’ll give feedback as to what they want from anime, but they’re only really into it because it’s free. If anime wasn’t free, they wouldn’t be as interested if they had to put money down for it. So even if there were different price structures, different modes of delivery, and different channels for viewing, those fans who are downloading the majority of their anime will NEVER purchase anime.

    “…If anime moves because it’s free, you have to find ways to deliver it at the price, which, those fans are willing to pay; which is nothing.”

    Downloading

    Downloading is becoming a business in China, but even if downloading became a business in America, the vast majority of anime fans still will not pay. There’s a new generation of anime fans and those are the fans who are creating some of the problems. There’s even a new generation of fans among the fansubbers: The Uploader. These are the fans who upload anime like mad and toss up anime for all to share.

    Some of these fans think they’re helping the industry, speculates Lance Heiskell. They want to expose more people to anime, but in fact, they’re hurting the industry. Matt Greenfield, however, feels “…that’s a pile of sh*t.”

    The people who are doing the uploading - they know what they’re doing, he says. Mr. Greenfield says the fans who organize these downloading sites are well aware of the effect they’re having.

    The Uploaders are this new type of person who could benefit from an education on the detrimental impact fansubbing has on the overall industry, says Lance Heiskell.

    But this form of “sharing” is really nothing new. It’s been around as long as audio/visual media has. People have been copying vinyl onto eight tracks, and eight-track to cassette, CD to cassette, and CD to CD forever. The difference is the mind-set.

    Fans who are 30 years plus will have the mind-set that, if they want something, they’ll go to the store and buy it. Fans nowadays (18-21) have this sense of entitlement. There’s not even a concept that they should go and buy it. If they want something and it’s not readily available for download online, then they’ll lay down some cash. They think that intellectual properties aren’t something they have to pay for.

    The anime industry doesn’t have a group who go out to actively protect the copyrights of titles. It takes a lot of effort to do that and some companies can’t afford that. Copyright laws can be hard to decipher and understand, but the major, more established companies (Disney) have the money and have the lawyers who protect all their properties. Anime companies still do not, making it difficult to go after pirates.

    Anime Fan Demographics

    Speaking towards the demography of the anime fan; the majority are still young men. Women buy mostly manga and are considered smarter with their money then men. But female anime fans do exist and the industry should start to appeal to that sector. Getting younger Americans (children) to develop an interest in anime isn’t as difficult as it used to be. With shows like Pokemon and Dragonball Z, the doors have been, not only cracked open, but flung wide to the world of anime. When anime starts showing up in Happy Meals, you know it’s mainstream and that children are at least aware of anime.

    Anime Themes

    Themes of anime (moe for example) that are big in Japan sometimes just don’t click with US culture. What does that mean for the US market? It means that non-anime companies are acknowledging the anime phenomena and are creating knock-offs for the younger US generation to fill the gap (WINX Club, W.I.T.C.H., Xaolin Showdown). It comes down to choosing which anime is chosen to be pushed in America by companies.

    Anime is a form of storytelling. This mode of entertainment can have any theme and still be considered anime. Themes aren’t necessarily the definitive factor of anime as much the delivery. Nor does it have to be made in Japan to be “real” anime. It can be created anywhere, and as long as it adheres to its storytelling roots, it can have any theme and any point of origin and be considered anime. Good entertainment is all about the story. Anime started out as an inexpensive way to deliver a good story on a budget.

    Media

    As to marketing anime in the US, companies are starting their own TV channels, and are pushing cable companies to carry channels that show anime. They’re making anime available in more forms and they understand that we’re living in a mobile world and are trying to adapt to fit the changing times.

    Cost

    Pricing is a big issue in moving anime over here. How to make purchasing a series on DVD worth the money? Companies are selling the DVDs by putting in a lot of bells and whistles; liner notes, fancy packaging, cast interviews, commentary, exclusive figures, and on and on. If fans just wanted to watch a series, more than likely, they’ll download it.

    Trying to end on an up-note, the panel wrapped up with the guests predicting that anime will expand and grow and evolve in its mode of delivery. There was a sense of great hope for anime in the US and the feeling that this is only the beginning for the medium.

21 Responses to "Anime Expo 2007: Anime in America"

1 | Sabas

July 5th, 2007 at 9:39 am

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Oh yay, I’m in the fanservice region. Lol.

I see that they’re trying to adapt to the new ways of content-delivering (downloads, streaming media, etc.), but let’s blame the fansubbers while we’re working on it! Right. So I’ll just be sitting right here, waiting for a year to pass (or 2..or 5..or maybe it won’t get licensed at all) by before they announce their licenses.

I can understand why they’d be upset at the “UPLOADER” especially if the titles they were uploading were licensed, but is that really the problem here?
Going after fans ala MPAA/RIAA isn’t going to help things much, either.

I must be a bit odd, because I download fansubs and buy what gets licensed. I do tell my friends about fansubs of current anime in Japan, but they buy it when it gets licensed as well. I want to see the Anime Network, Funimation Channel, etc. but they aren’t there. I’d be totally fine downloading it, but there’s so little to legally download.

Going after fansubs is one thing, but the companies themselves need to change fast. How ’bout more anime through platforms like Joost or Azureus’s service? License early or even pre-license and show it for free online while the anime is on-air in Japan. Work on getting more people intrested in anime through club programs and social-networking sites.

2 | Asterisk-CGY

July 5th, 2007 at 10:03 am

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Well this is lovely. The internet is actually causing issues with an industry.

So I download anime at a pretty hefty rate, mostly going for the new stuff. However I guess I fall in the majority “who just want something for free.” Yea, most of its money, since not having a job or free family money means no luxury expenses. I’m also one of those that just haven’t liked dubs. So it felt like I was paying for only half of the thing. I got friends that buy DVD’s, mostly out of collection’s sake. They won’t buy stuff that they don’t feel was done right, even if they’ve seen the fansubs.

Really the industry started with fansubs, and if its going down its gonna end with fansubs.

3 | Anonymous

July 5th, 2007 at 10:16 am

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People download subs for many reasons and don’t buy the DVD’s.

3-5 eps for 19$? No thanks.
Quality? yea, right…RAWs are starting to come out in 1280HD.
Quality again? US subs blow. subbers sub the anime better than ppl that get paid for it.

Faggot companies can bitch and whine all they want, C&D mean NOTHING.
And dub sucks.

4 | Anonymous

July 5th, 2007 at 10:42 am

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If companies really want us to start paying for anime, they really need to change their direction. First they should try making there subs not suck more than all of the fansub groups. Also they should give extras away with dvds and put them on every corner

5 | omo

July 5th, 2007 at 10:51 am

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I think the entitlement attitude is not as pervasive as these companies paint it, but obviously it’s a widespread problem.

But I think some people just won’t watch anime if it isn’t free. That much you can’t really leverage by forcing them to pay, because they’ll just stop and IMO both sides are worse off because of it.

The problem doesn’t lie with fansubbing either. Plenty of people just rip R1 releases and upload them…

More importantly, I think there are more than one solutions, and marketing is key as one of the main things that can make people spend money on anime. All this unnecessary attention on fansubbing and bootlegging is just PR bullshit that doesn’t really address the problem underneath.

6 | Rachel

July 5th, 2007 at 11:13 am

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@Sabas, I feel your pain in regards to the lengthy process of licensing in the US. I too am impatient and pissy at the extraordinary waiting time for a series to get released here. Companies are well aware (that’s what they said) of these issues but it seems that maybe they need to rethink how to change with the times. I got the feeling from some panelists that they don’t know which way to move forward in since there’re so many options to choose from.(*hint, I think it’s a many forked path that companies need to progress down)

@ Asterisk-CGY, Many panelists agree that the hardcore fan prefers subs in their anime. In fact, almost all are considering releasing series with subs only to get it out faster.

As to pricing…I’ve spent $100s on series and have felt screwed by doing so. Why the hell is a DVD so damn pricey? Opinions were varied but they all agreed that it was mainly due to licensing fees. (I’m confused by that) Also, I’m confused as to why all the bells and whistles are necessary for fans like me. I just want to watch the damn thing, not play a game or pose a figure. They should have options for a cheap bare-bones DVD pack for folk of like mind.

@Anonymous, Pricing pressure is something the companies say they’re working on. DVDs may be a thing of the past what with streaming content and I-Tunes being at the forefront of the changing face of media.

HD, however, sounded like getting it out there in any mass quantity would also be contingent on the consumer. Why release a shit ton of HD series when no one is equipped to watch them?

Some fans are light years ahead of the industry in terms of technology access. I guess fans need to learn patience or, better yet, work to solve the problems the industry is facing instead of waiting for something to happen.

@Anonymous, I agree with you that the industry needs to evolve with the times; that goes for any industry anywhere. I still think that since these US distribution companies are so relatively new, they’re still trying to figure out what fans really want (the paying ones) and how to deliver it in an attractive, affordable package.

7 | Rena

July 5th, 2007 at 1:57 pm

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There have been a few studies that show that the current generation, aka Gen Y or Millenials, has very different values when it comes to ownership. Call it the “Napster mentality”–wherein downloading isn’t seen as a crime, say compared to stealing a DVD from a video store. I think this is a big part of why illegal downloading is so popular–from a generational standpoint, young people don’t actually see it as anything negative. (Please note that I’m only 25, not some old lady railing against “kids these days.”)

Now, I’m not saying I’ve never viewed an episode of an anime program online, but, when I do see something I like, I make an effort to purchase the DVDs. Then again, I work with the media and am big on copyright law–somebody created it, so they deserve to be paid for it (even if it is at an overblown/expensive price).

The bigger issue is how the industry will deal with it–will they simply go “MPAA/RCIA” and sue fans that download, or will they create a viable alternative? iTunes or a similar paid viewing service could do wonders for the people that simply want to watch the series or catch an episode to see if they like it (you can already buy an episode of some TV programs on iTunes for $1.99).

Hell, why not stream video free online like NBC or other media companies? Since anime mags (NewType and Otaku USA) both distribute DVDs of episodes in their print editions, why not stream the video online at their site? It would drive users to the mags’ sites and create higher visibility than just inserting DVD copies into the print issues.

Obviously, licensing companies need to stop taking so long to get anime product to the U.S. market. As noted above, users don’t want to wait to get the “newest and greatest” anime episodes. Licensors either need to speed the dubbing process up, or just sub episodes and bring them to market ASAP. In a global marketplace, the consumer has more power to wield and the industry would do well to serve them as quickly as possible– the Internet not only made anime widely accessible, but it also supplied a “information at your fingertips” mentality that makes users impatient to have to wait for anything. So, in my opinion, the industry either plays catch up or dies…And, let’s face it, no one wants to see it die.

8 | Peter

July 5th, 2007 at 4:05 pm

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Fansubbing is a big issue that both hurts and hinders the industry. Obviously, if you had watched a series, the chances of you buying merchandise and other licensed goods are much greater. On the other hand, it does hurt the US-side of the industry because it completely undercuts the US-side of production. Anime series are not easy or cheap to produce, so the DVD is going to cost money. Many of the younger fans without jobs and way too much time on their hands will watch anything because it is free.

Yeah, fansubs are usually better because the explanation has the “luxury” of being much longer. A fansub can has the ability to be much longer than the quote itself if the explanation needs to go into culturally specific definitions etc. People can pause, etc. With a professionally produced product, having a long-drawn out explanation does not cut it….they make it so people don’t have to press pause every few minutes, even if things are sightly revised.

Asterisk, get a job…..you probably are really young and do not understand that production costs money. Here’s a clue, stop sitting around in front of your monitor all day and start looking for work.

Rachel, what is “hardcore”? Someone that downloads everything in site? Of course they will like the subs, because that is the only option they have when you DL something. I like Anime, but i can watch English and Japanese depending on title, because I sometimes actually buy the Dvd, so i have the option. Voice acting and production/direction of the US staff is important…they help bring Anime to a wider audience and bridge the cultural/language gap between the two countries.

9 | Mac

July 5th, 2007 at 4:12 pm

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Once again, they have failed to grasp that the great majority of downloaders are NOT THEIR MARKET.

Copyright infringement does have some negative effect on the industry, but it’s a small one. For a download to count as having hurt sales, the downloader would have had to otherwise be willing to buy the series, and that’s generally *not* the case.

The simple fact of the matter is that the products are not worth the cost to most people. As companies play the legitimate game of maximizing profit by balancing increased cost with reduced sales, they seem to forget the “reduced sales” consequence. If the cost of doing business requires that the products be priced as they are and the sales still aren’t high enough, well, that just means it’s not a profitable business.

Of course, other companies (including the original Japanese creators) seem to get by just fine offering their products at zero cost. It’s called “broadcasting”. I wonder if these guys have heard of it? This new “internet” thing might even offer some unique possibilities for doing this “broadcasting”. Heck, the publicity offered by this fancy idea might even boost DVD sales!

Add on top of the general truth that most people aren’t willing to pay those prices the fact that the few of us watching fansubs generally don’t want to pay money for the poor translations we’re often stuck with, and you have the reasons for the fansub community thriving… but not really having much relevance to sales.

10 | Anonymous

July 5th, 2007 at 9:05 pm

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Fansubs jus do a better job than the companies do. And it’s sad, seeing as they want “US” to buy the DVD’s…when they do such a piss poor job. Fansubs back in the 90’s and early 2000~ were plain, like the DVD’s now. But now they use styles and really cool effects…and with raws in HD now, like I said..why bother buying it? HD encodes are kick ass and flawless quality.

And the fullscreen raws 4:3, are really good now compared to the 90’s.

11 | Rachel

July 5th, 2007 at 9:36 pm

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@Rena, I agree with you on the subject of mentality. I’ve met so many young people who have no respect for intellectual property; be it a movie, album, picture, or original piece of art. How to impress upon them that an abstract idea is just as valuable as a piece of merchandise?

Some panelists are actually actively looking for the viable alternatives you mention. The way we watch our media is changing almost daily and I bet it’s difficult and expensive to place a bet on more than one of the many new modes of anime viewing. (Blue Ray (?), HD, streaming content, iTunes, DVD, cable, VOD)

@Peter, you sound informed on the subject of fansubbing as it poses a threat to the industry. I don’t know about fansubs being better than the actual DVD subs (since I really don’t watch fansubs) except for one instance: Advent Children. And what you’re describing fits that situation. I was completely taken aback by the two totally different meanings between the fansub and the officially licensed DVD. I felt the fan sub was actually better. Now I have an explanation as to why.

When I say “hardcore”, I’m referring to those who adamantly refuse to watch anime with dubs. I couldn’t speak on the matter in regards to Downloaders being that way.

@Mac, At least one of the representatives at that panel knows that downloaders aren’t the industry’s market. He seemed pretty on top of that. Some other panelists seemed to think that education would help downloaders see the error of their ways and start shelling out the dough for anime; a rosy, optimistic, and, potentially, dangerous point of view.

As to broadcasting as a means to making a dollar over here with anime…gotta have a real, loud and vocal demand first. One guy repeatedly calling Comcast for Anime Network really isn’t gonna have the impact needed to have uncensored anime delivered to US households.

12 | griever

July 6th, 2007 at 3:19 am

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I’m actually looking forward to the pay-per-download and seeing how that goes. One of the reasons I stopped buying anime DVDs was the price. They’re marketing to young adults and, at least when I was actively buying DVDs, I didn’t have $30 of easy spending money. $5-10, yeah, but not $30. And for a boxset? I spend about $30-$40 on a regular American TV show boxset…why does the Japanese one cost $40-$50 more? Is the cost of licensing and production that much more expensive?

I know absolutely nothing about the anime companies and broadcasting, but why can’t they band together, create an anime channel (and therefore only have to release 1 episode a week), and then release the boxsets like everyone else? The past plan (DVD release only) obviously isn’t working too well and at this point, a lot of people are so internet-savvy that it’s easier to download.

14 | Pete Zaitcev

July 8th, 2007 at 2:29 am

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After reading this I hate Matt Greenfield so much. I thought I hated John Ledford, but apparently it was just mild disapproval as I understood now. I _only_ bought the Azumanga because I saw it on fansubs (I also have both Japanese and English manga). And in general, implication that if I download my fansubs then I do not support the industry is offensive in greatest degree.

15 | wabi-sabi

July 8th, 2007 at 3:02 am

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Blue-skying anime ownership…

Day-dreaming possible solutions to the problems of (anime) piracy….

16 | How do you watch your favorite anime series/movies? at The Anime Blog

July 13th, 2007 at 9:01 am

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[...] be interesting to have a poll that’s somewhat related to that theme. Last week’s poll sparked some really interesting discussions. This week’s poll is about the type of media you watch anime [...]

17 | Paul anderson

July 13th, 2007 at 10:28 pm

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Obviously, licensing companies need to stop taking so long to get anime product to the U.S. market. As noted above, users don’t want to wait to get the “newest and greatest” anime episodes.

18 | Anca

August 4th, 2007 at 11:38 am

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US people aren’t the only ones downloading fansubs, but US companies going down on fansubs also annoy those who are even less their target market than the US downloaders.

I don’t CARE about dubs because 1) English is not my first language, and imho sucks at dubbed voices (unlike german - and no, that’s not my ml either). i have no reason to like them. 2) Shipping Cost here for one entire 26 Episode series can cost as much as an average salary, aside from the fact that it wouldn’t be worth it for anything other than the collector’s value, 3) American companies’ profits don’t affect the profits the Japanese producers have, so I don’t even feel an obligation to it AND number 4) We don’t have an anime industry to hurt or inconvenience AT ALL in this country.

Does this make dlding the things legal? Of course not. Does it justify them? No, it’s free entertainment, after all. Do I have any other choice? No.

The US should stop thinking itself the be-all-end-all of the world.

From a less subjective viewpoint…

In Japan, an anime DVD costs much more than in America, because the intended audience are only hardcore fans. As was stated above, they derive their profits from TV - why can’t american companies try the same thing?

19 | griever

August 4th, 2007 at 4:27 pm

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“The US should stop thinking itself the be-all-end-all of the world.”

Anca: When did US fansub companies turn around and become the US nation? You’re mixing business capitalism with politics as another excuse to rant about the US. Anyone who knows my political views knows that I’m NOT Bush’s #1 fan, but I think a lot of foreigners loves to rant about America with whatever lame excuse they can use and frankly, it reflects poorly on you.

20 | angry fan

August 22nd, 2008 at 6:20 pm

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i agree with Anonymous dub’s suck why pay for something that was done horribly. it easy to watch it online than to buy a DVD with 3-5 episodes for 19.99 - 25.then have to wait 3-to 5 business days to get last time my i ordered a DVD it took 2 weeks to get 1 DVD.

21 | Inu Yasha

September 21st, 2008 at 6:24 pm

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is it normal for a 13 year old to be watching Bleach, Death Note, Naruto, Inu Yasha, and Full Metal Alchemist? just wondering cuse some of my friends think that these shows that i like are too over my head…but that freken sucks that they arent being supportive….

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